tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post2810940895709598606..comments2024-02-26T02:14:00.144-08:00Comments on TransFusion: Who Belongs in Women's Spaces, Again? Women's College EditionDr. Cary Gabriel Costellohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14478058791195474381noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-81787581784360585142016-08-03T12:27:39.534-07:002016-08-03T12:27:39.534-07:00So I realize it's now been nearly two years si...So I realize it's now been nearly two years since publication, but Dr. Costello, THANK YOU so much for writing this. I am planning to begin attending a women's college this fall (I am a cis woman), and have already begun running into objections to me referring to classmates as "sisters." I love that there is an article by a trans man that I can refer them to, since most won't listen to me due to my identifying as what I was assigned. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06632816819262753320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-67149417101693632572015-10-07T18:36:02.869-07:002015-10-07T18:36:02.869-07:00https://obatdalamuntuklukaoperasicaesar.wordpress....https://obatdalamuntuklukaoperasicaesar.wordpress.com/ | https://obatdalamuntuklukaoperasicaesar.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/obat-dalam-untuk-luka-operasi-caesar/jamaludinherbalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764221859854472211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-63340881167591981642015-03-04T03:29:44.644-08:002015-03-04T03:29:44.644-08:00custom scholarship essays writing have get more wr...<a href="http://www.clazwork.com/scholarship-canada-essay-writing-expert-wilcox" rel="nofollow">custom scholarship essays writing</a> have get more writers for making papersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-42113193415272155872014-11-08T11:54:17.848-08:002014-11-08T11:54:17.848-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-3526519152305882212014-11-07T11:33:21.845-08:002014-11-07T11:33:21.845-08:00(So, trans men are not equally affected by patriar...(So, trans men are not equally affected by patriarchy as cis women. Now, as to the question of whether trans men "understand what it's like to be a woman," my response would be that many, but not all, trans men understand what it's like to be *treated as a woman*. That's not the same thing as understanding what it's like to *be a woman*. I've never identified as female, so I can't tell you what it's like to be one, but I do know a good deal about how people perceived as female are treated. Now, there are other trans men who have different life experiences--most often referenced are trans men who used to identify as lesbian women. If someone's experience really is that of identifying wholeheartedly as a woman, then having some sort of conversion experience, and identifying as a man instead, then I'd presume he really did know what it was like to be a woman. But again, once he began transitioning, he'd start gaining male privilege and becoming, whether he wanted to or not, part of the patriarchy. And I'd suspect that would shape his recollections of his prior gender experience. Human memory isn't like a computer file; it's a construct, recreated by our current brains, and shaped by our experiences since the memory.)Dr. Cary Gabriel Costellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14478058791195474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-65168993820036255792014-11-07T10:59:32.266-08:002014-11-07T10:59:32.266-08:00I'm glad it could be of some use, Elroi! I...I'm glad it could be of some use, Elroi! I'd love to hear how those conversations resolve.Dr. Cary Gabriel Costellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14478058791195474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-28255370690160050542014-11-07T10:57:25.062-08:002014-11-07T10:57:25.062-08:00As I said in this post, I do not agree that trans ...As I said in this post, I do not agree that trans men should be kicked out of women's colleges, because it would be uncharitable to force someone undergoing major life changes to lose their supportive network of friends and face the major financial challenges that could be involved.<br /><br />However, I believe that people who transition to male at women's colleges should comport themselves carefully and respectfully, as they are essentially tolerated intruders. The instant he begins transitioning, a trans man is no longer "equally afffected by patriarchy," as he begins to gain male privilege. The fact that many trans men don't feel they are experiencing male privilege just illustrates that they are indeed men--most cis men don't feel they experience male privilege either. What men, cis and trans, need to do is step back and let women speak about sexism, misogyny, transmisogyny, and male privilege--and listen carefully. Yes, cis and trans men can speak about gender issues. But they shouldn't dominate conversations about gender, or try to make things all about them.<br /><br />Where trans men at women's colleges show their greatest hubris, to me, is when they say "you can't call this a women's space anymore, that's transphobic." Actually, Mr. All-About-Meeeee, trans men do not suffer more than cis women, women's colleges serve a purpose, and excluding *men* from a women's space is not transphobic--excluding *trans women* is.<br /><br />Besides the hubris of claiming a right to undermine the idea of a women's institution, the other example of smug and clueless behavior that really gets my goat is when trans men tell women how to feel about them. When cis men get on their #NotAllMen hobbyhorse and say, "You know, it really hurts my feelings when a woman crosses the street at night to get away from me or turns down my offer to drive her home. I'm innocent and she shouldn't treat me like I'm guilty," then we rightly reply, "You can't tell some woman how to feel; women fear sexual assault for rational reasons." When a trans guy says, "Women shouldn't feel anxious to see me in a women's safe space because although I am a man I know as much as they do about patriarchy and their viewing me as threat is ridiculous," they are doing the same thing as the cis #NotAllMen dude--and are taking it to another level by demanding access to women's spaces, not just demanding welcoming and trusting attitudes from women in public spaces.<br /><br />Saying, "I'm a man, but I can't be a part of the patriarchy because my intentions are good and I am trans" is no different from saying "I'm a man, but I can't be a part of the patriarchy because my intentions are good and I am living with a disability/a man of color/gay/pagan/unemployed/whatever." That's not how intersectionality works. <br /><br />As a trans man, I benefit from male privilege all the time. I'm just lucky in that I have a trans woman spouse who can point it out to me, and whose contrasting experiences making it very clear. Trans men who aren't close to trans women often only notice the ways in which they suffer from cissexism, while being as blind to the ways in which they benefit from male privilege as the next (cis) guy.Dr. Cary Gabriel Costellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14478058791195474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-78214850055431952482014-10-28T18:27:32.476-07:002014-10-28T18:27:32.476-07:00Yes, I absolutely would still find them appalling....Yes, I absolutely would still find them appalling. Even as a purely standalone issue, the presence of trans men at women's colleges is an unacceptable intrusion on the entire concept of women's spaces. While gender policing of the student community is obviously both impractical and oppressive, trans men at women's colleges should not be accomodated or encouraged in any way. They should be firmly encouraged to transfer to coed and/or men's institutions where they belong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03212880297916579342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-75179408424709488662014-10-26T03:52:17.034-07:002014-10-26T03:52:17.034-07:00I like the clarity and broader sense of you questi...I like the clarity and broader sense of you questionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-22967971874121816622014-10-23T20:44:05.240-07:002014-10-23T20:44:05.240-07:00I follow your logic, and agree that the transman i...I follow your logic, and agree that the transman in the article is the worst kind (in fact, I imagine many transmen are chagrined to see this representation of their politics in relation to women's colleges).<br /><br />But here's my question: would you found this particular student's statements appalling if he had not been coupling them with anti-transwomen sentiments? I can see the hubris/male privilege point easily, but I'm wondering, if a transman did NOT display this hubris or make anti-transwomen statements-- if he in fact was active is gaining access for transwomen to the women's college-- would you still feel offended by his claims to understanding "what it's like to be a woman" and drawing on that experience to prove they are equally affected by patriarchy and therefore belong at women's colleges?Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14095033880031231387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-38160755611768133772014-10-23T20:40:12.317-07:002014-10-23T20:40:12.317-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14095033880031231387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-70773919159825341072014-10-23T14:45:31.692-07:002014-10-23T14:45:31.692-07:00Thank you for writing this. I particularly enjoy y...Thank you for writing this. I particularly enjoy your use of the word "hubris" to describe trans masculine people making demands while choosing to occupy women's spaces. This is one of the reasons why, as a trans guy, I never correct people when they call me "she" during a bicycle race - because I am choosing to compete in women's events. See some of my thoughts on the issue of competing in women's sports here: http://thetcycle.com/2014/10/10/disapearing-reflections-on-2014-nationals-x2/<br /><br />While sports and academics/living spaces are different, I wholeheartedly agree that trans men and women need to be held to the same standards.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-7789284862999470902014-10-23T07:01:00.723-07:002014-10-23T07:01:00.723-07:00I feel like the question shouldn't be about wh...I feel like the question shouldn't be about whether women's colleges should be offering admission to trans-people, but rather what can institutes of higher learning do to create the accepting environment for trans-people that right now is exclusively associated with women's colleges.<br /><br />BMC '04Sharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16045899679028660433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-50755018501624734412014-10-23T06:17:55.043-07:002014-10-23T06:17:55.043-07:00I am a Bryn Mawr alum (class of '04), so this ...I am a Bryn Mawr alum (class of '04), so this topic hits close to home. Granted, I am privileged to identify with my assigned gender. I can't begin to imagine what it must feel like navigating gendered spaces as a trans person of any variety.<br /><br />The year before I went to Bryn Mawr, there was a student who realized he identified as male and went through the transition process. If I remember correctly, he ultimately decided to transfer because he could not reconcile being at a women's school.<br /><br />I don't know about other women's colleges, but I know I am staunchly opposed to Bryn Mawr going co-ed. So if other women's institutions are similar, I guess I feel the same way about them too. I'm aware that my reasons for taking this stance are mostly emotional.<br /><br />I loved my experience at Bryn Mawr, and I think it would lose a core element of its identity if it were to go co-Ed. There are some traditions and beautiful aspects of that culture that would be lost. The very thought makes me a sad panda. <br /><br />For someone who identifies as male, regardless of assigned gender, I agree that a women's college is not a good fit. I also agree that once a person is admitted to a women's college, that decision should be a personal choice, not an administrative mandate. But as you said, if you are a man in a women's space, it is up to you to respect that space. (In the case of Bryn Mawr, you can transfer to Haveford and *still* have the option of taking only Bryn Mawr classes and living on Bryn Mawr's campus.)<br /><br />If someone identifies as female, more days than not, regardless of assigned gender, I hope they're given a fair shot at joining a sisterhood such as Bryn Mawr. To me, not welcoming a trans woman into a female space is like not letting a religious convert into their chosen house of worship. For crying out loud, if someone chooses to make major life changes and sacrifices to be part of our communities, doesn't that deserve to be honored and/or celebrated?<br /><br />For those who opt out of gender altogether or are gender fluid/nonconforming/whatever, I think it's up to them to decide whether they would feel comfortable in such strongly female identified spaces.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01022078539863733919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-56224329949034695552014-10-22T07:38:41.735-07:002014-10-22T07:38:41.735-07:00Great essay, Cary. I'm going to share this wit...Great essay, Cary. I'm going to share this with my Dean as we're still negotiating what it means to have trans students at our women's college. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-45383963883343217362014-10-21T19:40:56.916-07:002014-10-21T19:40:56.916-07:00As a transman, it is extremely offensive that this...As a transman, it is extremely offensive that this is even up for debate. Or rather, being accepted so languidly. If a man, trans or cis is attending a women's college, he needs to respect the space without trying to force his sister students to conform to his whims. If one's feelings are so delicate as to not handle being address as "sisters" in a group, then leave the group. I really appreciate your perspective as it puts my own views into much more professional sounding words. It's hard not to be angry at anyone, and especially a transman for assuming those of us with XX chromosomes must be bound by them all our lives. A vagina is not a "get out of jail free" pass into every women's space (or really any,to be perfectly honest). Among the right to be seen as a man, is the right to be excluded from places that a cis-man might expect to be excluded as well. <br />There are so many places that a man, even a transman can be accepted and included that it is entirely inappropriate to expect the college to re-conform itself to these twisted notions.<br />Also, thank you for addressing the article's title, as I was viciously thinking the particular individual in dispute deserved to be insulted if he was going to go about expecting the world to revolve around him. But that would be petty and vindictive and I shouldn't be thinking that way, and it does much more damage to other, respectful transmen who are not attempting to reinforce patriarchal ideals all around them at the expense of others. :CAazhiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11681902695621967244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-42323891832467338192014-10-20T17:27:09.188-07:002014-10-20T17:27:09.188-07:00Good response. There's an active discussion on...Good response. There's an <a href="http://ftm.livejournal.com/7358459.html" rel="nofollow">active discussion on this article</a> on LiveJournal's FTM community, and the response there thus far seems overwhelmingly in agreement with yours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-41583401254284094152014-10-20T14:31:16.023-07:002014-10-20T14:31:16.023-07:00Thank you for commenting on this. As a graduate of...Thank you for commenting on this. As a graduate of a women's college, I feel like this is a vital conversation to be having. My institution went co-ed so I'm supporting my sisters who are pushing their alma maters to include trans women in the student body. Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01175287704687068472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-906442678610585215.post-29451143548318770612014-10-19T22:42:56.499-07:002014-10-19T22:42:56.499-07:00So frustrating to be perpetually stuck in this pla...So frustrating to be perpetually stuck in this place where male privilege prevails regardless and ironic and confusing too, as transwomen are accused of using male privilege to violate spaces where transmen suddenly gain it and fail to recognize it! <br /><br />On that side note of creepiness--I have been in the very awkward position back when I was queerdating of being one among a group of lesbians surrounding a transman as if he were a god. It felt like high school all over again.Sue Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17432899300135835946noreply@blogger.com